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it's russ bulge president of Brisbane

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skeptics society here the national

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convention is less than a week away

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early bird tickets are sold out and

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premium tickets are selling fast if you

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don't have your tickets yet what are you

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waiting for we have some amazing guests

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in Brian Schmidt Joe Nickell Eugenie

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Scott Mars power Susan Kovac James coin

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Cassandra Perryman Loretta Marin John

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Cook Mel Thompson Peter ellerton cigna

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Dean Jake far Wharton Holly worland and

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panels on parenting skeptically and

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challenges and skepticism not only that

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but on Friday there was a free skeptic

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camp and entertainment evening there's

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really never been a better time to visit

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Brisbane and hang out with all your

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favorite skeptics go to convention

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brisbane skeptics dog now welcome to the

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skeptic zone the podcast from australia

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 364 it's Richard Saunders

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here just wrapping up the shonky awards

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and we'll get to that later on the

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episode joining me is may not hear hello

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everybody and Joe alabaster hey and

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we're here as I said at the shonky

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awards coming up on the skeptic John

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this week we have a an in-depth report I

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think about the shank is this you know

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this so the annual awards given by

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choice magazine it's sort of like the

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Australian skeptics bent spoon award or

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the jrf flying pig or big as this award

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it's for da zhi xiang key products that

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don't really live up to all the hype

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also on this week's show we have

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skeptics in the pub with our guest Susan

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Kovac who's visiting and a little report

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from you and Jermaine out about

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superfoods that's right we've heard a

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lot about kale so we went and ate some

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and well you wouldn't believe what we

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discovered you won't believe what we

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discovered as I say in the headline you

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really shouldn't we really can't I can't

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believe it already and I've heard the

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report so all that's coming up this week

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on the skeptic zone now don't forget you

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can meet Maynard Joan me Rancic give and

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Heidi and all sorts of other people at

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the Australian skeptics National

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Convention which is or next weekend may

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not we're looking forward to it and I'll

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be interviewing anybody with a mouth so

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I'll see you all there we look forward

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to it indeed but for now it's time for

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us to run over and get the last of the

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biscuits which i think is still on the

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here's Maynard spooky action at a

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the crowd is rushing and pushing to try

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and get as much of the blueberry tarts

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as they possibly can that means that

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it's a hungry media crowd here hungry

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for the shonky awards 2015 we're here

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with the people that really count i'm

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tim i'm richard i can't do now what to

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do you expecting this year and what

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usually goes on at the Xiang keys i'm

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hoping to get a shonky for my entire

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career with the ABC I I know they gave

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me one I hope you don't get one

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independently I think it does anyone who

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deserves one may not it's you hands down

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now can you think of a couple of

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nominees off the top of your head that

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you would like to see get a shonky this

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year I would love to see the premium

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wine card to get a shonky they're not

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nominated they should be I'd like to see

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the the parking situation around the

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carriage works here in Sydney this is

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the choice magazine shonky awards they

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give them out every year it's sort of

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like the australian skip expense brune

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award so they point out things that they

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think are a little bit sus a little bit

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dodgy a little bit shonky and they named

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them and showing them now because it's

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the kind of thing where anyone who wins

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doesn't really want to win and certainly

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no one collector award I think it's very

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much like the Ben Spooner's which have

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said so far no one has turned up on the

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day to collect their bent spoon award

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and I can't see many people here really

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looking forward to winning a schottky

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and standing I'm going you and what I

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mean these that was pointed out to me

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that these days with consumer products

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most things are usually okay when you

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buy them they usually work I mean you

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buy a car it worked you buy a hard drive

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it works and if it doesn't you take it

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back and they give you a new one so

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really all you can really complain about

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is Miss Representation because the

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manufacturing quality seems to have

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improved with many things give hope so

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of course unless you're buying a

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Volkswagen

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look about misrepresentation well yes

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but that doesn't really affect the

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that's a regular regulatory thing that's

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the that's thing I mean that's the

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marketing no that's the that's the

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puppet masters ruining it for everyone

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really that's what's going on there

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that's right I agree with that but I

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mean it's sort of whether a half of the

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shonky things I believe are in the

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marketing of the product saying that

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they can do things which they can't

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particularly do not necessarily products

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that are dangerous although some might

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be I think it's just living up to

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expectations and living up to the hype

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here's the problem with our case with

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the bent spoon of course a lot of the

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things people have win the award for a

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dangerous mmm well about you Richard you

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think that all you really can do is

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marketing claims now the actual products

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themselves usually do work generally I

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think you're right usually they do work

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but not always a classic example of that

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was and choice magazine followed the

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Australian skeptics lead on this power

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balance the wristband now when we

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exposed power balance in 2009 the very

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next year at the sharkies 2010 the chunk

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a shonky was given to the power balance

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and this blasted it you know it didn't

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work well as far as a rubber band that

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goes on your wrist goes it works so

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again it's the marketing claim of it

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that that was the problem yeah alright

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you got me there yeah you can god this

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rubber band doesn't work on my wrist

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yeah when you're right you're right

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mater Joe how are you I'm fantastic

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thank you men are it's pretty exciting

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here now what do you think would be

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something that should be nominators you

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perhaps get a shonky in this 2015 year

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oh um television network television what

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a reality shows or just the ads the

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whole lot is there a difference

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we honored or what is honored some of

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the biggest names in business v 2015

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shonky award winners Mike Wessel losers

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the National Australia Bank for their in

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quotation marks a low rate credit card

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as official interest rates continue to

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go down the rate on the na being the

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National Australia banks credit card

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continued to go up ashoke for Arnott's

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tiny teddies biscuits the sugary treat

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with hundreds and thousands this

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confectionery was marketed to school

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kids with a canteen logo might be fun to

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eat but it doesn't comply with the

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Australian dietary guidelines as yogi to

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so-called payday lenders in other words

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loan sharks another shonky for the Nano

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smart laundry ball now this is a

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whiz-bang new technology sphere you

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throw into your laundry you don't need

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to use laundry soap and it washes your

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clothes well it doesn't for fifty

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dollars using plain tap water would be

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better Samsung wanna shonky for their

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top load of washing machines that have a

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habit of bursting into flames choice

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magazine was also concerned that Samsung

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hasn't done enough to alert the public

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and recall the defective machines Mikey

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awana shonky for advertising non leather

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furniture as being leather coca-cola

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came in for criticism for being behind a

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so-called health website and finally

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Kleenex flushable wipes you can flush

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them but they don't disintegrate and can

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clog up your pipes after the awards

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Leonard caught up with some of the

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presenters and the people at choice

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magazines too often or chose our party

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fighting greatness and achievement look

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at the awards are over and that is some

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of the world class pantomime I was

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yelling out for more pantomime in fact

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you failed in the patter there was there

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could have been more they could

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definitely be more I think don't

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encourage them as my role with with

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choice if you give them the opportunity

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to do more pantomime they will

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absolutely take the opportunity now for

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the list and what was your favorite I'm

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for me I'd have to say what favorite

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isn't the word but i think the behavior

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of samsung with the top loader is

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exceptionally poor I don't have a

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favorite but it certainly but in terms

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of ones that I I found the most amusing

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it has to be the the washing balls with

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the the nano ceramic forth like you look

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at and just go what were you thinking

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all the claims outrageous and the fact

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that anyone would actually fall for it

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CS 50 50 bucks it's got the sort of

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weirdly aspirational quality to it

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that's what I find fascinating they like

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you want to believe that that sort of

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technology exists and I think that's why

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it went it on the market is my theory

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anyway it's just something you could

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just share this you've actually fallen

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for recently we perhaps shouldn't have

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given your knowledge the consumer area

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I've probably I probably fallen victim

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to a couple of really bad techniques

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from from real estate agents and I think

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real estate agents in CPR particularly

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bad I think that's problem I don't want

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to go into specifics about it because

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I've got it right I wasn't so you've

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paid more rent than you should have or

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you've been forced into may be signing a

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contract you should have something like

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that maybe maybe paid more for a house

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than I should have through some dodgy

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practices join the coup for that one

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yeah but I think that's what everyone in

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Sydney but I think there were some

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pretty dodgy practices going on with

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real estate agent slit look this there's

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a couple of relationships with women

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that visually haven't worked out for me

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and basically do you think I'm the one

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that should be recalled possibly

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possibly I don't want to prejudge you as

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a human being but no one knows I'm in a

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backwards of yes you should be recalled

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back to the you factory and a special

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version I can boss wagon didn't get us

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those special mention today I'd say

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Volkswagen is a is getting a shellacking

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on a global scale at the moment far

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bigger than just Australia I I'd say

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there's are definitely going to be more

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to watch when it comes to the consumer

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activities of Volkswagen I love the

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pantomime i love the awards it was great

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for and we'll hosted today thank you I

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ok I just I just smiled Kate the realtor

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look I got some Washington do I'll see

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you later use my wipes look as of course

270
00:10:25,710 --> 00:10:23,949
i mentioned pantomime was big on me and

271
00:10:27,180 --> 00:10:25,720
hear some of these sean cats the the

272
00:10:28,199 --> 00:10:27,190
people who are on stage doing some of

273
00:10:29,819 --> 00:10:28,209
the Panama what was your favorite part

274
00:10:32,910 --> 00:10:29,829
of my moment in the entire schwanke

275
00:10:34,379 --> 00:10:32,920
awards ceremony oh I quite enjoyed the

276
00:10:36,059 --> 00:10:34,389
teddy bears I thought they were quite

277
00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:36,069
humorous oh yes just described for the

278
00:10:41,309 --> 00:10:38,290
list of what went on there so we had

279
00:10:43,050 --> 00:10:41,319
some teddy bears in like teddy bear

280
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:43,060
onesies and they danced to the teddy

281
00:10:47,460 --> 00:10:45,610
bears picnic and then they sprinkle

282
00:10:48,780 --> 00:10:47,470
hundreds and thousands on each other to

283
00:10:50,129 --> 00:10:48,790
indicate that Arnott's thought that that

284
00:10:51,869 --> 00:10:50,139
was a really great thing to put in kids

285
00:10:54,629 --> 00:10:51,879
lunches continuously all the time

286
00:10:57,329 --> 00:10:54,639
exactly mmm and what was your favorite

287
00:10:59,429 --> 00:10:57,339
moment on stage I wasn't actually in the

288
00:11:01,769 --> 00:10:59,439
room at the time I was at the back

289
00:11:04,740 --> 00:11:01,779
whatever new we are not the other day

290
00:11:07,199 --> 00:11:04,750
they were handing out ones is I dread to

291
00:11:09,210 --> 00:11:07,209
all the onesies I got to the one thing

292
00:11:11,639 --> 00:11:09,220
is um you know I would have to say

293
00:11:15,090 --> 00:11:11,649
probably the payday lenders the sharks

294
00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:15,100
yes circling our poor 25 year olds it's

295
00:11:19,139 --> 00:11:16,810
quite rare that a whole industry gets an

296
00:11:21,059 --> 00:11:19,149
award it is quite rare usually we pick

297
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:21,069
one company but we think that the entire

298
00:11:26,460 --> 00:11:24,490
industry is deserving of that award ok

299
00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:26,470
Pam welcome to the skeptic zone ah thank

300
00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:28,569
you glad to be here let the listeners

301
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:30,370
know where we might have seen you oh you

302
00:11:34,710 --> 00:11:32,410
might have seen me on the checkout I am

303
00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:34,720
the resident guilty mum and occasional

304
00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:37,600
reporter also a good choice now what was

305
00:11:40,590 --> 00:11:39,370
your favorite one of all the aid Awards

306
00:11:42,329 --> 00:11:40,600
Sean keys you gave there which is the

307
00:11:45,269 --> 00:11:42,339
one that really bit you the most yeah

308
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:45,279
look my favorite is the adult butt wipes

309
00:11:48,629 --> 00:11:47,410
that claim to be flushable you know I

310
00:11:50,759 --> 00:11:48,639
think it's kind of questionable that

311
00:11:52,650 --> 00:11:50,769
adults need butt wipes Oh baby might

312
00:11:54,210 --> 00:11:52,660
need a white but an adult not sure but

313
00:11:56,610 --> 00:11:54,220
the fact that they actually don't break

314
00:11:58,110 --> 00:11:56,620
down is a pretty dodge completely non

315
00:11:59,790 --> 00:11:58,120
biodegradable I thought that would be

316
00:12:01,139 --> 00:11:59,800
some sort of fine for a company that did

317
00:12:02,850 --> 00:12:01,149
something like that to a waterway yeah

318
00:12:05,490 --> 00:12:02,860
look they conduct their own testing

319
00:12:07,290 --> 00:12:05,500
that's industry-sponsored you might be

320
00:12:08,670 --> 00:12:07,300
surprised to hear i'm looking at a

321
00:12:10,049 --> 00:12:08,680
milkshake churner over there that that's

322
00:12:11,519 --> 00:12:10,059
going one of those flushes and you had

323
00:12:13,290 --> 00:12:11,529
it going for 24 hours and it did we

324
00:12:14,910 --> 00:12:13,300
didn't degrade it all its integrate at

325
00:12:16,230 --> 00:12:14,920
all in fact a few of them got a few

326
00:12:17,819 --> 00:12:16,240
little tears which actually makes them

327
00:12:20,100 --> 00:12:17,829
even worse because they get caught on

328
00:12:22,340 --> 00:12:20,110
the snags in pipes and a lot of people

329
00:12:23,150 --> 00:12:22,350
find out the first time these things are

330
00:12:24,740 --> 00:12:23,160
flushable when they get a

331
00:12:27,590 --> 00:12:24,750
thousand-dollar bill from their palama

332
00:12:29,900 --> 00:12:27,600
so not only does it ruin our waterways

333
00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:29,910
and our water services the majority of

334
00:12:32,900 --> 00:12:31,410
these things get stuck on people's

335
00:12:35,390 --> 00:12:32,910
property and that means you're liable

336
00:12:36,770 --> 00:12:35,400
for the bill now what about personally

337
00:12:38,540 --> 00:12:36,780
have you been caught out as a consumer

338
00:12:40,010 --> 00:12:38,550
recently and you think I'm on a bloody

339
00:12:42,230 --> 00:12:40,020
shall I should know better than this I'm

340
00:12:43,790 --> 00:12:42,240
a goose has that happened to you I get

341
00:12:45,530 --> 00:12:43,800
caught out all the time especially with

342
00:12:48,050 --> 00:12:45,540
food because I'm a parent and I'm always

343
00:12:51,380 --> 00:12:48,060
looking for an easy way out or you know

344
00:12:53,420 --> 00:12:51,390
a snack that will you know help stop my

345
00:12:55,970 --> 00:12:53,430
children screaming at me and what's up

346
00:12:58,960 --> 00:12:55,980
doing yeah look tiny teddies Tony's

347
00:13:01,430 --> 00:12:58,970
Eddie's were there today you know I've

348
00:13:03,770 --> 00:13:01,440
drunk the kool-aid and bought the tiny

349
00:13:06,140 --> 00:13:03,780
teddies cereals are another nightmare

350
00:13:07,340 --> 00:13:06,150
I'll breakfast cereals you look at the

351
00:13:08,930 --> 00:13:07,350
ingredients on the side of the box you

352
00:13:10,850 --> 00:13:08,940
look at the fat the trans fats and stuff

353
00:13:12,890 --> 00:13:10,860
and it's not really let it helpful no

354
00:13:15,230 --> 00:13:12,900
look I've had 30 year Dietetic students

355
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:15,240
tell me they can't read the label so

356
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:16,890
they can't do what I think the rest of

357
00:13:20,300 --> 00:13:18,810
us aren't going to stand a chance none

358
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:20,310
no one was here none of these people

359
00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:22,170
were here the NAB Bank wasn't here the

360
00:13:25,790 --> 00:13:24,480
kleenex people weren't here where are

361
00:13:27,530 --> 00:13:25,800
these people getting their awards if I

362
00:13:28,850 --> 00:13:27,540
got know what I'd turn up I mean look I

363
00:13:30,290 --> 00:13:28,860
thought I'd get an award for my entire

364
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:30,300
body of work with the ABC it never

365
00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:31,440
turned up once I didn't even get

366
00:13:35,570 --> 00:13:33,330
nominated I feel sure I feel slighted

367
00:13:37,820 --> 00:13:35,580
shocking look they never turn up they

368
00:13:39,230 --> 00:13:37,830
never shown up it's very upsetting but

369
00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:39,240
we might get some nice letters from

370
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:41,370
later in the week and we might hear the

371
00:13:46,670 --> 00:13:44,970
screaming coming from the CBD any moment

372
00:13:50,090 --> 00:13:46,680
now you gave it an award to an entire

373
00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:50,100
category payday loans yeah look it was

374
00:13:54,650 --> 00:13:51,570
you know we couldn't pick a winner we

375
00:13:56,540 --> 00:13:54,660
tried to and it's a pretty scary problem

376
00:13:58,220 --> 00:13:56,550
to have when you realize you actually

377
00:13:59,390 --> 00:13:58,230
cannot single one hour we had to give it

378
00:14:01,970 --> 00:13:59,400
to the whole industry we've just seen

379
00:14:03,210 --> 00:14:01,980
some horrendous examples of loans

380
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:03,220
compounding on low

381
00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:05,050
uns and loans for as little as a hundred

382
00:14:09,179 --> 00:14:07,689
dollars you know and and and being else

383
00:14:12,689 --> 00:14:09,189
you need a holiday you want to go

384
00:14:14,220 --> 00:14:12,699
shopping take out a payday loan at what

385
00:14:16,110 --> 00:14:14,230
sort of interest rates can they be at

386
00:14:17,309 --> 00:14:16,120
look off the top of my head I can't

387
00:14:19,079 --> 00:14:17,319
remember but I know if you miss a

388
00:14:21,030 --> 00:14:19,089
payment you're really going to start

389
00:14:22,769 --> 00:14:21,040
compounding almost immediately and and

390
00:14:24,030 --> 00:14:22,779
these are people the main point is these

391
00:14:25,319 --> 00:14:24,040
are people that probably shouldn't be

392
00:14:27,059 --> 00:14:25,329
taking out loans in the first place

393
00:14:28,740 --> 00:14:27,069
they're going to these payday lenders

394
00:14:30,449 --> 00:14:28,750
because they can't get credit anywhere

395
00:14:32,369 --> 00:14:30,459
else now as far as the whole industry

396
00:14:34,259 --> 00:14:32,379
goes you could give one to the entire

397
00:14:37,230 --> 00:14:34,269
fashion industry because it is something

398
00:14:39,329 --> 00:14:37,240
that frankly isn't needed at all are you

399
00:14:40,740 --> 00:14:39,339
suggesting we all go nude Manor I'm

400
00:14:44,369 --> 00:14:40,750
suggesting that we don't need something

401
00:14:46,650 --> 00:14:44,379
new every year yeah this is this is

402
00:14:49,439 --> 00:14:46,660
George Bernard Shaw George Bernard Shaw

403
00:14:50,999 --> 00:14:49,449
said fashion is a manufactured epidemic

404
00:14:53,340 --> 00:14:51,009
I believe he said in that case I'm a

405
00:14:55,679 --> 00:14:53,350
serial offender are you looking great

406
00:14:57,449 --> 00:14:55,689
that's fantastic thank you it comes with

407
00:14:59,100 --> 00:14:57,459
the job unfortunately so the last

408
00:15:00,090 --> 00:14:59,110
warning finna consumers out there before

409
00:15:04,530 --> 00:15:00,100
they do anything what should they do

410
00:15:06,749 --> 00:15:04,540
look nothing is as it appears and

411
00:15:08,999 --> 00:15:06,759
despite having good consumer laws in

412
00:15:11,639 --> 00:15:09,009
Australia there is a massive gaps so

413
00:15:12,929 --> 00:15:11,649
always check the fine print do your

414
00:15:15,119 --> 00:15:12,939
homework and don't believe everything

415
00:15:16,670 --> 00:15:15,129
the marketers tell you based on that you

416
00:15:20,220 --> 00:15:16,680
should have tinder up there next year

417
00:15:21,809 --> 00:15:20,230
gonna write that down yeah oh and now

418
00:15:23,129 --> 00:15:21,819
who we got here we've got the big guns

419
00:15:24,629 --> 00:15:23,139
here we've got a guy who's been a

420
00:15:26,340 --> 00:15:24,639
boating to the camera he's been yelling

421
00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:26,350
he's been screaming you've been causing

422
00:15:31,079 --> 00:15:28,480
people to cry all over Redfern today

423
00:15:33,059 --> 00:15:31,089
yeah look unfortunately Maynard the Shan

424
00:15:35,610 --> 00:15:33,069
Keys just keep rolling on now in their

425
00:15:37,559 --> 00:15:35,620
tenth year and look we just keep juicing

426
00:15:39,269 --> 00:15:37,569
there are so many lemons out there we'd

427
00:15:41,309 --> 00:15:39,279
love to end it but we just can't now

428
00:15:43,889 --> 00:15:41,319
over ten years what's the best legal

429
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:43,899
challenge you've had look so many

430
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:45,850
companies try to sue us but the fact is

431
00:15:50,579 --> 00:15:48,250
we're a science based organization we

432
00:15:52,710 --> 00:15:50,589
deal in facts and research so

433
00:15:55,139 --> 00:15:52,720
unfortunately for them we've never been

434
00:15:58,439 --> 00:15:55,149
successfully sued and this year the crop

435
00:16:00,929 --> 00:15:58,449
is huge ikea coca-cola samsung the list

436
00:16:02,100 --> 00:16:00,939
goes on these are very very dodgy

437
00:16:03,929 --> 00:16:02,110
offering some some of the world's

438
00:16:04,980 --> 00:16:03,939
biggest companies now yes just what

439
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:04,990
you're saying isn't you're not actually

440
00:16:08,309 --> 00:16:06,730
labelling them because you've you've got

441
00:16:09,869 --> 00:16:08,319
truth as a defense is that correct well

442
00:16:11,549 --> 00:16:09,879
that's right look we're dealing truth

443
00:16:13,079 --> 00:16:11,559
main art and the fact is that some of

444
00:16:15,299 --> 00:16:13,089
these big companies have been less than

445
00:16:17,639 --> 00:16:15,309
honest they're dealing in dodgy fees

446
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:17,649
dubious marketing claims but they just

447
00:16:22,470 --> 00:16:20,050
downright slippery and one thing's for

448
00:16:23,910 --> 00:16:22,480
sure today they're very shonky who you

449
00:16:25,769 --> 00:16:23,920
pick one of the eight that you find

450
00:16:27,929 --> 00:16:25,779
personally agree just let's use that

451
00:16:30,749 --> 00:16:27,939
word egregious look I think flushable

452
00:16:32,939 --> 00:16:30,759
wipes from Kleenex is just unbelievable

453
00:16:35,370 --> 00:16:32,949
he's a company that's going out telling

454
00:16:37,169 --> 00:16:35,380
people to flush these things down the

455
00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:37,179
toilet they disintegrate like toilet

456
00:16:41,220 --> 00:16:39,040
paper when in actual fact they do

457
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:41,230
nothing of the sort they just leave you

458
00:16:44,429 --> 00:16:42,850
with a big plumbing bill you had a photo

459
00:16:46,290 --> 00:16:44,439
from a treatment plan of them all

460
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:46,300
clogged up together look that's right

461
00:16:50,429 --> 00:16:48,250
they're ruining the sewer system there

462
00:16:52,110 --> 00:16:50,439
is no way consumers should be using

463
00:16:53,429 --> 00:16:52,120
these and flushing them down the to it

464
00:16:55,049 --> 00:16:53,439
now where can people go and have a look

465
00:16:56,850 --> 00:16:55,059
at the website and maybe vote on their

466
00:16:59,519 --> 00:16:56,860
favorite one this year look head to Shan

467
00:17:01,049 --> 00:16:59,529
keys com dot a you and see which lemon

468
00:17:03,540 --> 00:17:01,059
is your favorite I'm hoping to see

469
00:17:04,829 --> 00:17:03,550
tinder up there next year oh really all

470
00:17:06,090 --> 00:17:04,839
right I mean there's some outrageous

471
00:17:08,100 --> 00:17:06,100
claims being made on that dating site

472
00:17:09,569 --> 00:17:08,110
there is over there is I've seen yours

473
00:17:11,279 --> 00:17:09,579
here and you are not as much as you

474
00:17:14,449 --> 00:17:11,289
that's a very oh that's a photoshop one

475
00:17:16,679 --> 00:17:14,459
of you know no I don't think so yeah

476
00:17:19,889 --> 00:17:16,689
Alan welcome to skeptics own now what's

477
00:17:21,120 --> 00:17:19,899
your position again CEO choice right so

478
00:17:22,770 --> 00:17:21,130
you've got to meet a few lawyers after

479
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:22,780
this show haven't you I expect I'll get

480
00:17:25,610 --> 00:17:24,250
back and find an inbox full of letters

481
00:17:27,990 --> 00:17:25,620
from some of the big end of town

482
00:17:29,279 --> 00:17:28,000
threatening us with legal action and

483
00:17:31,380 --> 00:17:29,289
trying to stop us calling out what we

484
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:31,390
think is shonky the best response is

485
00:17:35,220 --> 00:17:33,370
truth we're really careful about FX

486
00:17:36,899 --> 00:17:35,230
we're sure that all of these products

487
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:36,909
and services and companies did deserve

488
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:38,890
to be called out as shonky and that

489
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:40,210
that's good enough to stand up in court

490
00:17:44,220 --> 00:17:42,730
once the one that made you go off I

491
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:44,230
think the biggest one for me is probably

492
00:17:48,450 --> 00:17:45,970
the payday lending industry because it's

493
00:17:49,710 --> 00:17:48,460
an entire industry in one go what's the

494
00:17:51,870 --> 00:17:49,720
highest interest rate you saw them

495
00:17:53,430 --> 00:17:51,880
charging oh they can charge an effective

496
00:17:54,779 --> 00:17:53,440
interest rate of up to two hundred and

497
00:17:56,039 --> 00:17:54,789
forty percent per annum and this is

498
00:17:59,070 --> 00:17:56,049
preying on people when they're at their

499
00:18:00,450 --> 00:17:59,080
most vulnerable okay an enchanted like

500
00:18:02,549 --> 00:18:00,460
tinder making it next year because

501
00:18:05,190 --> 00:18:02,559
there's shonky clams on there I've seen

502
00:18:07,380 --> 00:18:05,200
we haven't looked at tinder but I guess

503
00:18:08,430 --> 00:18:07,390
that's the case of buyer beware yeah you

504
00:18:09,389 --> 00:18:08,440
should know what you're getting into it

505
00:18:11,220 --> 00:18:09,399
look I'll let you go because you've got

506
00:18:13,830 --> 00:18:11,230
a lot of emails to read absolutely

507
00:18:15,450 --> 00:18:13,840
thanks man well I've been speaking a few

508
00:18:17,039 --> 00:18:15,460
people but let's just see what what Tim

509
00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:17,049
it's all over now first of all Tim

510
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:18,130
mendham what do you think of all these

511
00:18:21,750 --> 00:18:20,290
Sean keys for 2015 I was very moved by

512
00:18:23,820 --> 00:18:21,760
actually I was very very move especially

513
00:18:26,250 --> 00:18:23,830
by the video presentations and by the

514
00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:26,260
recipients being so excited to receive

515
00:18:29,070 --> 00:18:27,280
the author I special

516
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:29,080
but the laundry ball yeah the laundry

517
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:30,250
ball is a wonderful thing actually we've

518
00:18:33,030 --> 00:18:31,570
actually looked at the longer bald years

519
00:18:34,380 --> 00:18:33,040
ago I think one of our challenging

520
00:18:36,420 --> 00:18:34,390
coordinators looked at that actually

521
00:18:38,550 --> 00:18:36,430
spice no it's still around actually it's

522
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:38,560
a product with staying power here Oh God

523
00:18:41,100 --> 00:18:39,970
when we think of laundry balls I just

524
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:41,110
thought the stuff of the two-dollar shop

525
00:18:44,820 --> 00:18:42,970
that basically goes in the the dryer and

526
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:44,830
just basically goes around the dryer and

527
00:18:48,930 --> 00:18:46,330
just tries to aerate things a bit now

528
00:18:50,130 --> 00:18:48,940
this thing uses negative ions energies

529
00:18:51,390 --> 00:18:50,140
and all sorts of different energies and

530
00:18:53,310 --> 00:18:51,400
things to actually make your washing

531
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:53,320
better apparently it's almost as good as

532
00:18:58,980 --> 00:18:56,250
pure water who would have thought

533
00:19:00,300 --> 00:18:58,990
amazing and only 50 bucks and only 50

534
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:00,310
bucks I go then you gotta get another

535
00:19:04,590 --> 00:19:01,690
one eventually I proceed will run out of

536
00:19:06,780 --> 00:19:04,600
negative ions and Joe what did you find

537
00:19:08,610 --> 00:19:06,790
about there as a mother and someone who

538
00:19:09,990 --> 00:19:08,620
packs school lunches I imagine the the

539
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:10,000
teddy bear thing would have been to be

540
00:19:13,740 --> 00:19:11,290
one for the teddy bear biscuit to put in

541
00:19:17,190 --> 00:19:13,750
the kids lunches indeed it seems that

542
00:19:18,810 --> 00:19:17,200
Arnott's have been claiming that their

543
00:19:20,370 --> 00:19:18,820
canteen approved their tiny teddy

544
00:19:21,930 --> 00:19:20,380
biscuits and they're covered in hundreds

545
00:19:24,900 --> 00:19:21,940
of thousands they covered in chocolate

546
00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:24,910
it's not healthy come on but the kids

547
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:27,370
would love them are the kids do but

548
00:19:31,890 --> 00:19:30,730
that's not the point and Richard what do

549
00:19:34,020 --> 00:19:31,900
you make of that it was a few there that

550
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:34,030
you are you you're pulling your face at

551
00:19:38,460 --> 00:19:36,250
a few the few there had a fear laundry

552
00:19:39,660 --> 00:19:38,470
balls may not what can I say the laundry

553
00:19:41,610 --> 00:19:39,670
balls for me were great because I've

554
00:19:43,260 --> 00:19:41,620
seen those before at the royal easter

555
00:19:45,330 --> 00:19:43,270
show in fact people selling those

556
00:19:47,010 --> 00:19:45,340
laundry balls night you know a shock

557
00:20:07,620 --> 00:19:47,020
when you see one and I was looking at a

558
00:20:13,630 --> 00:20:10,660
hello Richard and all the listeners of

559
00:20:16,540 --> 00:20:13,640
skeptic zone my name is Ron levy and I'm

560
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:16,550
the producer and co-host of curious mind

561
00:20:24,790 --> 00:20:19,010
it's about cast about science technology

562
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:24,800
and history at wwc em-pod cmp oh d dot

563
00:20:29,260 --> 00:20:27,170
net each episode will bring you

564
00:20:31,570 --> 00:20:29,270
interesting stories from a wide range of

565
00:20:34,690 --> 00:20:31,580
subjects from physics astronomy and

566
00:20:36,670 --> 00:20:34,700
medicine from arts to science fiction we

567
00:20:38,950 --> 00:20:36,680
strive for the highest production values

568
00:20:41,050 --> 00:20:38,960
both in content and in delivery we

569
00:20:44,260 --> 00:20:41,060
already have on the air episodes about

570
00:20:46,660 --> 00:20:44,270
German u-boats in Second World War about

571
00:20:50,170 --> 00:20:46,670
the history of x-rays and the war of

572
00:21:05,659 --> 00:20:50,180
currents between Tesla and Edison come

573
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:08,009
welcome to out and about with Joe and

574
00:21:11,940 --> 00:21:10,330
Maynard we decided to investigate the

575
00:21:17,820 --> 00:21:11,950
fantastic adventure that is the

576
00:21:19,470 --> 00:21:17,830
wonderful world of kale mmm we saw on

577
00:21:21,509 --> 00:21:19,480
the restaurant menu there okay we'll

578
00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:21,519
give this a go I was completely prepared

579
00:21:25,950 --> 00:21:23,710
to be underwhelmed and I thought hey

580
00:21:28,289 --> 00:21:25,960
kale that's the broccoli that's had the

581
00:21:33,450 --> 00:21:28,299
makeover it's been dolled up it's like

582
00:21:36,330 --> 00:21:33,460
the supermodel of the cabbage world I

583
00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:36,340
was very skeptical about the whole Kyle

584
00:21:41,340 --> 00:21:39,370
thing I'm actually open to kale how did

585
00:21:44,009 --> 00:21:41,350
you find your kale experience how is it

586
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:44,019
done it was calorific I don't feel

587
00:21:50,009 --> 00:21:46,330
particularly super after consuming a

588
00:21:52,769 --> 00:21:50,019
superfood I feel mildly powerful after

589
00:21:54,690 --> 00:21:52,779
consuming superfood I don't seem to be

590
00:21:59,639 --> 00:21:54,700
able to have the ability to fly but I do

591
00:22:01,680 --> 00:21:59,649
look slightly better in a cape nothing

592
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:01,690
give us the skinny on what you know and

593
00:22:05,820 --> 00:22:03,250
what you've heard about kale Joe

594
00:22:08,430 --> 00:22:05,830
alabaster kale is often referred to as a

595
00:22:11,159 --> 00:22:08,440
superfood it's also referred to as a fad

596
00:22:12,690 --> 00:22:11,169
and I think a piece of kale was once

597
00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:12,700
elected as a counselor up in the

598
00:22:16,860 --> 00:22:14,559
northern rivers I think counselor Kael

599
00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:16,870
passed a few motions well that is one of

600
00:22:20,220 --> 00:22:18,370
the claims that people make about kale

601
00:22:23,009 --> 00:22:20,230
that it can help one pass motions that

602
00:22:25,830 --> 00:22:23,019
it can prevent cancer that it can

603
00:22:27,419 --> 00:22:25,840
prevent aging of the skin it's one of

604
00:22:29,879 --> 00:22:27,429
those super foods that's treated as a

605
00:22:32,580 --> 00:22:29,889
miracle cure all in various parts of the

606
00:22:34,649 --> 00:22:32,590
world it is actually used as a hat in

607
00:22:36,450 --> 00:22:34,659
Samoa I believe I just made that up

608
00:22:39,090 --> 00:22:36,460
because people make up a lot of stuff

609
00:22:41,700 --> 00:22:39,100
about superfoods they do indeed what

610
00:22:43,230 --> 00:22:41,710
actually is in kale that is supposed to

611
00:22:46,289 --> 00:22:43,240
be so great you've done some research

612
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:46,299
about this yes I put on my lab coat and

613
00:22:50,940 --> 00:22:49,330
I read on the internet it does have a

614
00:22:53,279 --> 00:22:50,950
lot of vitamin K it's got a great deal

615
00:22:56,370 --> 00:22:53,289
of iron the profile it didn't have many

616
00:22:58,169 --> 00:22:56,380
friends I know but I'd like on one of

617
00:23:00,480 --> 00:22:58,179
its pictures to cheer it up good on ya

618
00:23:01,830 --> 00:23:00,490
so what's its major thing what is the

619
00:23:04,830 --> 00:23:01,840
one ingredient that's supposed to be the

620
00:23:07,470 --> 00:23:04,840
alleged magic bullet I'd say it would be

621
00:23:10,379 --> 00:23:07,480
the antioxidants which are purported to

622
00:23:11,850 --> 00:23:10,389
be in kale and also the vitamin D I'm

623
00:23:15,030 --> 00:23:11,860
not going to go with one I'm going

624
00:23:16,950 --> 00:23:15,040
multiple I saw then 100 grams which

625
00:23:20,010 --> 00:23:16,960
seems like an awfully large amount of

626
00:23:22,020 --> 00:23:20,020
steamed and cooked kale there's seven

627
00:23:24,930 --> 00:23:22,030
hundred percent of your daily

628
00:23:26,130 --> 00:23:24,940
recommended intake of vitamin K which is

629
00:23:29,220 --> 00:23:26,140
curious because we don't necessarily

630
00:23:31,169 --> 00:23:29,230
need much vitamin K at all in our diet

631
00:23:34,260 --> 00:23:31,179
what's actually happening inside our

632
00:23:36,690 --> 00:23:34,270
bodies is that our gut biome produces

633
00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:36,700
its own vitamin K so we're manufacturing

634
00:23:41,039 --> 00:23:39,370
vitamin K in our own bodies not our own

635
00:23:43,650 --> 00:23:41,049
cells but the souls that live inside us

636
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:43,660
and this is actually why we have vitamin

637
00:23:47,490 --> 00:23:45,610
K shots for babies because they don't

638
00:23:49,289 --> 00:23:47,500
have a gut biome established their guts

639
00:23:50,669 --> 00:23:49,299
a sterile have you seen the stuff they

640
00:23:52,919 --> 00:23:50,679
put in their mouths how could they gut

641
00:23:54,450 --> 00:23:52,929
possibly be sterile we're talking tiny

642
00:23:56,130 --> 00:23:54,460
babies who are just into breastfeeding

643
00:23:58,320 --> 00:23:56,140
so they haven't had time to start eating

644
00:24:00,960 --> 00:23:58,330
the carpet yet not quite yet but as a

645
00:24:04,770 --> 00:24:00,970
culinary experience overrated underrated

646
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:04,780
kale cops a lot of flak I can kind of

647
00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:07,450
see why it's an acquired taste i expect

648
00:24:10,650 --> 00:24:09,130
like Brussels sprouts broccoli

649
00:24:14,340 --> 00:24:10,660
everything else in the Brassica family

650
00:24:16,140 --> 00:24:14,350
twitch kale belongs I didn't mind it I

651
00:24:18,030 --> 00:24:16,150
wouldn't go out of my way to eat it

652
00:24:19,470 --> 00:24:18,040
while we're recording this to as you've

653
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:19,480
noticed on the skipping zone there's a

654
00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:21,010
lot of background noises because it's

655
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:23,200
done in non studio situations the Royal

656
00:24:26,549 --> 00:24:24,850
skeptic you've heard her apologizing

657
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:26,559
which I don't really know why for birds

658
00:24:29,820 --> 00:24:28,210
in the backyard and and four children

659
00:24:31,590 --> 00:24:29,830
and veteran argue I don't think have to

660
00:24:32,669 --> 00:24:31,600
apologize for that either really but I'd

661
00:24:34,409 --> 00:24:32,679
like to apologize to a few the

662
00:24:36,330 --> 00:24:34,419
background noises we've got here there's

663
00:24:38,370 --> 00:24:36,340
that cannon that keeps getting fired

664
00:24:40,740 --> 00:24:38,380
across the road

665
00:24:42,510 --> 00:24:40,750
I'd like to apologize for that and I'm

666
00:24:44,310 --> 00:24:42,520
really sorry about the charity scene

667
00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:44,320
from being hurt I just wish those guys I

668
00:24:56,060 --> 00:24:52,640
I've really got to apologize for Adam

669
00:24:57,380 --> 00:24:56,070
West it smells like a trap shut up I'll

670
00:24:59,450 --> 00:24:57,390
leave the last word for you Joe

671
00:25:01,460 --> 00:24:59,460
alabaster how do you feel about kale as

672
00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:01,470
a culinary superfood that's part of the

673
00:25:07,130 --> 00:25:03,840
balanced nutritious diet I'm absolutely

674
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:07,140
pro kale but as the superfood I've got

675
00:25:13,670 --> 00:25:10,770
to say that I'm a little skeptical now

676
00:25:25,770 --> 00:25:13,680
gentlemen I suggest we take a break come

677
00:25:30,190 --> 00:25:28,029
welcome to a week and science from our

678
00:25:32,110 --> 00:25:30,200
arrows bringing you the science you need

679
00:25:33,909 --> 00:25:32,120
to know are you sitting down listening

680
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:33,919
to this what do you think you're doing

681
00:25:44,130 --> 00:25:42,070
what if we said that the amount that you

682
00:25:46,300 --> 00:25:44,140
sat down was a major health concern

683
00:25:47,950 --> 00:25:46,310
there's a growing amounts of research

684
00:25:50,050 --> 00:25:47,960
which is showing that the amount that

685
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:50,060
you sit down can increase your risk of

686
00:25:54,820 --> 00:25:51,770
various medical problems such as

687
00:25:56,860 --> 00:25:54,830
diabetes and cardiovascular disease one

688
00:25:58,300 --> 00:25:56,870
study delved is the possible reason for

689
00:26:00,310 --> 00:25:58,310
this and found that the amount that

690
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:00,320
people sat down alter the length of

691
00:26:04,630 --> 00:26:02,570
their telomeres which our DNA caps on

692
00:26:07,210 --> 00:26:04,640
the end of your chromosomes these

693
00:26:08,770 --> 00:26:07,220
telomeres shorten as you age and sitting

694
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:08,780
for more time leaves that shortening

695
00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:11,330
happening even faster increasing a risk

696
00:26:16,990 --> 00:26:15,440
of age-related conditions now I know

697
00:26:19,030 --> 00:26:17,000
what you're thinking if you're sitting

698
00:26:21,610 --> 00:26:19,040
down and not exercising your possibly

699
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:21,620
unfit and leading a poor lifestyle but

700
00:26:24,970 --> 00:26:23,090
it's not quite that straightforward in

701
00:26:27,610 --> 00:26:24,980
these studies the amount of exercise

702
00:26:29,220 --> 00:26:27,620
didn't have any effect it was purely the

703
00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:29,230
amounts of sitting down time and

704
00:26:33,790 --> 00:26:31,760
exercising didn't negate the effects of

705
00:26:35,770 --> 00:26:33,800
sitting the effect is still seen in

706
00:26:37,930 --> 00:26:35,780
people who are otherwise fit including

707
00:26:39,670 --> 00:26:37,940
runners one suggestion is that while

708
00:26:41,470 --> 00:26:39,680
you're standing your hamstrings and

709
00:26:43,540 --> 00:26:41,480
thigh muscles are working more than when

710
00:26:45,130 --> 00:26:43,550
you are sitting and this small amount of

711
00:26:46,930 --> 00:26:45,140
constant work is what makes the

712
00:26:48,700 --> 00:26:46,940
difference so if you want to stay

713
00:26:50,860 --> 00:26:48,710
healthy tries to reduce the amount of

714
00:26:53,860 --> 00:26:50,870
time you're sitting down or stand up as

715
00:26:58,300 --> 00:26:53,870
often as you can and now for fast facts

716
00:26:59,890 --> 00:26:58,310
about stand-up work desks stand up work

717
00:27:02,170 --> 00:26:59,900
desks were reportedly favored by

718
00:27:04,300 --> 00:27:02,180
Leonardo da Vinci Ernest Hemingway and

719
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:04,310
Winston Churchill some of the earliest

720
00:27:08,620 --> 00:27:05,810
evidence of the health effects of

721
00:27:10,990 --> 00:27:08,630
setting was in 1953 when a study showed

722
00:27:12,580 --> 00:27:11,000
bus conductors had a lower risk of heart

723
00:27:14,650 --> 00:27:12,590
attack than they're sitting driver

724
00:27:16,090 --> 00:27:14,660
counterparts Denmark has become the

725
00:27:17,890 --> 00:27:16,100
first country in the world to make it

726
00:27:20,650 --> 00:27:17,900
compulsory to offer employees the choice

727
00:27:22,810 --> 00:27:20,660
of a sitting or standing desk and just

728
00:27:24,100 --> 00:27:22,820
remember standing or frequent gentle

729
00:27:27,310 --> 00:27:24,110
exercise is not meant to replace

730
00:27:29,470 --> 00:27:27,320
vigorous exercise but complement it in a

731
00:27:31,870 --> 00:27:29,480
healthy lifestyle that's it for this

732
00:27:33,670 --> 00:27:31,880
week in science for more information on

733
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:33,680
their health effects of sitting goes the

734
00:27:41,470 --> 00:27:39,050
RLS website RI aus org dot a you follow

735
00:27:43,750 --> 00:27:41,480
us on twitter at ra oz and like us on

736
00:28:01,270 --> 00:27:43,760
facebook i'm ben lewis and we'll catch

737
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:04,130
the skeptic magazine the journal from

738
00:28:09,470 --> 00:28:07,290
Australian skeptics subscribe online to

739
00:28:14,090 --> 00:28:09,480
the world's second oldest skeptical

740
00:28:17,390 --> 00:28:14,100
magazine visit w WC e XCOM delay you and

741
00:28:20,990 --> 00:28:17,400
click the publication's league you can

742
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:21,000
also find their over 30 years on back

743
00:28:37,850 --> 00:28:24,330
issues free to download the skeptic

744
00:28:45,010 --> 00:28:37,860
magazine from Australian skeptics here's

745
00:28:49,460 --> 00:28:47,630
there's a lot of a lot of lot of

746
00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:49,470
controversies in the world of skepticism

747
00:28:53,180 --> 00:28:50,640
and one of the ones that I always get in

748
00:28:56,420 --> 00:28:53,190
trouble for is the whole gorilla skeptic

749
00:28:57,650 --> 00:28:56,430
thing I think gorilla as in but I'm with

750
00:28:59,270 --> 00:28:57,660
someone who actually knows the correct

751
00:29:01,640 --> 00:28:59,280
spelling of gorillas and would know how

752
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:01,650
to edit it in anybody's diary underneath

753
00:29:04,850 --> 00:29:03,210
the bed when they like their friends

754
00:29:07,490 --> 00:29:04,860
over late at night Susan Kovac how are

755
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:07,500
you hi Maynard hey now as a gorilla

756
00:29:10,970 --> 00:29:09,210
skeptic how do you spell that version of

757
00:29:15,500 --> 00:29:10,980
gorilla we have two different spellings

758
00:29:16,670 --> 00:29:15,510
GU er Arielle LA and gue rela we spell

759
00:29:18,580 --> 00:29:16,680
it either way which is the one that

760
00:29:20,990 --> 00:29:18,590
comes from the French meaning war I

761
00:29:23,690 --> 00:29:21,000
don't know we can look at that I know

762
00:29:26,930 --> 00:29:23,700
the site I can look at that actually

763
00:29:28,610 --> 00:29:26,940
what is the biggest thing as a wikipedia

764
00:29:30,770 --> 00:29:28,620
editor that you argue about because

765
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:30,780
wikipedia has little rules that the

766
00:29:34,340 --> 00:29:32,490
normal person falls foul of in fact

767
00:29:36,470 --> 00:29:34,350
Richard Saunders has successfully had me

768
00:29:38,750 --> 00:29:36,480
banned from Wikipedia by running foul

769
00:29:41,210 --> 00:29:38,760
one of those rules I heard that he did

770
00:29:43,700 --> 00:29:41,220
he actually put up a photo of me and to

771
00:29:45,380 --> 00:29:43,710
give it the correct attribution get said

772
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:45,390
it was from me now we know that you're

773
00:29:48,740 --> 00:29:46,770
not supposed to do that on Wikipedia

774
00:29:50,330 --> 00:29:48,750
boys are fine you can put up photos you

775
00:29:52,820 --> 00:29:50,340
know so i can put a photo of myself up

776
00:29:55,190 --> 00:29:52,830
on my own Wikipedia page yes yes in fact

777
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:55,200
we ask you to do that I didn't know that

778
00:29:58,880 --> 00:29:56,850
I thought you weren't allowed to do

779
00:30:01,190 --> 00:29:58,890
anything to your own Wikipedia page well

780
00:30:02,450 --> 00:30:01,200
a photo you have to upload the photo

781
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:02,460
because we don't have permission to

782
00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:04,890
upload a photo the person who owns the

783
00:30:09,650 --> 00:30:07,200
photo uploads the photo and so I have a

784
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:09,660
lot of photos on wikipedia that are I've

785
00:30:12,950 --> 00:30:11,760
taken I'll have myself even well I

786
00:30:14,450 --> 00:30:12,960
didn't take the picture of myself but

787
00:30:17,030 --> 00:30:14,460
you know any means but yeah you have to

788
00:30:18,410 --> 00:30:17,040
have the photo well you have to do it I

789
00:30:19,580 --> 00:30:18,420
thought you just had to drag around and

790
00:30:24,140 --> 00:30:19,590
find one that was in Creative Commons

791
00:30:25,100 --> 00:30:24,150
well no no not you yeah let's take a

792
00:30:26,870 --> 00:30:25,110
picture right now we get uploaded

793
00:30:28,250 --> 00:30:26,880
Jamaica pedia in a couple minutes I've

794
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:28,260
been uploading a few of them believe you

795
00:30:30,930 --> 00:30:28,930
me

796
00:30:32,250 --> 00:30:30,940
though the what do you think is the

797
00:30:34,830 --> 00:30:32,260
biggest challenge for someone who's

798
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:34,840
starting out as a wikipedia editor I'm

799
00:30:37,950 --> 00:30:36,610
getting in over their head they take on

800
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:37,960
a lot of responsibility that they

801
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:40,090
shouldn't have they try to do things

802
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:42,640
that are on homeopathy Scientology

803
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:45,850
Mormonism astrology or things that they

804
00:30:51,090 --> 00:30:48,850
are experts in because you can't have a

805
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:51,100
primary source and just because you may

806
00:30:54,330 --> 00:30:52,930
be right you can't put that edit up

807
00:30:56,370 --> 00:30:54,340
there unless you have a citation that

808
00:30:58,200 --> 00:30:56,380
proves that you're right okay and

809
00:30:59,940 --> 00:30:58,210
obviously there's all sorts of things on

810
00:31:02,940 --> 00:30:59,950
Wikipedia I mean is there an entry for

811
00:31:06,210 --> 00:31:02,950
the ties of the Thompson Twins the band

812
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:06,220
from the 80s you know I think Abba has a

813
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:08,410
really great page and Bananarama to

814
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:10,930
doesn't something see well obviously we

815
00:31:14,370 --> 00:31:12,130
haven't read it because this is actually

816
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:14,380
a tie as worn in the Thompson Twins hold

817
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:17,410
me now film clip oh my gosh I matchings

818
00:31:24,990 --> 00:31:21,570
road fiorucci 1984 I must get your half

819
00:31:27,060 --> 00:31:25,000
I'm really now I'm speechless but the

820
00:31:28,710 --> 00:31:27,070
thing that gets me is how does Wikipedia

821
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:28,720
decide whether something's notable or

822
00:31:31,740 --> 00:31:30,610
not I've heard a lot of bands getting in

823
00:31:33,180 --> 00:31:31,750
trouble because they put their entry up

824
00:31:35,010 --> 00:31:33,190
there and the band isn't considered to

825
00:31:37,230 --> 00:31:35,020
be notable who makes a decision about

826
00:31:39,210 --> 00:31:37,240
what's notable to be on Wikipedia in the

827
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:39,220
first place how is that decided that's a

828
00:31:43,590 --> 00:31:42,010
terrific question to be notable you have

829
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:43,600
to have secondary sources to prove your

830
00:31:48,780 --> 00:31:46,690
notability because if anybody could be

831
00:31:50,130 --> 00:31:48,790
put up a Wikipedia page everybody would

832
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:50,140
have a Wikipedia page and it would just

833
00:31:55,140 --> 00:31:52,090
mean nothing so that means there's

834
00:31:56,310 --> 00:31:55,150
nothing on wikipedia from before 1998 no

835
00:31:58,470 --> 00:31:56,320
no there's quite a bit there's quite a

836
00:32:00,360 --> 00:31:58,480
bit but you to be notable you have to

837
00:32:02,550 --> 00:32:00,370
have secondary sources to prove your

838
00:32:04,530 --> 00:32:02,560
notability secondary sources are in

839
00:32:07,230 --> 00:32:04,540
reputable places like newspaper articles

840
00:32:09,150 --> 00:32:07,240
written about you or your interviewed

841
00:32:12,780 --> 00:32:09,160
showing your notable somebody interviews

842
00:32:14,790 --> 00:32:12,790
you for a newspaper that means that your

843
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:14,800
opinion must be notable so if you have

844
00:32:17,820 --> 00:32:15,970
enough of those that proves your

845
00:32:20,940 --> 00:32:17,830
notability so a band can't do it unless

846
00:32:24,450 --> 00:32:20,950
they've been probably it's not the

847
00:32:26,670 --> 00:32:24,460
content they create it's the recognition

848
00:32:30,750 --> 00:32:26,680
by their peers recognition by the media

849
00:32:32,940 --> 00:32:30,760
and if to Wikipedia editors disagree how

850
00:32:34,940 --> 00:32:32,950
is the dispute resolved

851
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:34,950
rock paper scissors I believe that

852
00:32:41,250 --> 00:32:37,570
that's great although hang on online you

853
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:41,260
can be cheating haha Rock I think you

854
00:32:45,419 --> 00:32:43,090
have to be doing a skype interview or

855
00:32:46,769 --> 00:32:45,429
something with no there is a talk page

856
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:46,779
in the upper left-hand corner of every

857
00:32:50,759 --> 00:32:48,610
Wikipedia pages a little button called

858
00:32:53,070 --> 00:32:50,769
talk you go to the talk page and you

859
00:32:55,019 --> 00:32:53,080
will be able to see discussions with

860
00:32:56,909 --> 00:32:55,029
real Wikipedia editors talking amongst

861
00:32:58,560 --> 00:32:56,919
themselves about the edits so I should

862
00:32:59,879 --> 00:32:58,570
get back on Wikipedia after Richard

863
00:33:01,710 --> 00:32:59,889
Saunders did that thing we maybe should

864
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:01,720
know you should definitely be on

865
00:33:05,820 --> 00:33:03,970
Wikipedia but you're not going to be

866
00:33:07,590 --> 00:33:05,830
editing your own page oh but I can

867
00:33:10,110 --> 00:33:07,600
contribute selfie photos that I've taken

868
00:33:13,529 --> 00:33:10,120
after two in the morning well if they

869
00:33:15,570 --> 00:33:13,539
have anything to do with pokey or that

870
00:33:17,220 --> 00:33:15,580
might be actually kind of interesting so

871
00:33:19,470 --> 00:33:17,230
yeah those would probably be quite fine

872
00:33:21,629 --> 00:33:19,480
yeah yeah I go ahead and try that would

873
00:33:22,980 --> 00:33:21,639
be fine that might be quite interesting

874
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:22,990
now people are gonna come along and

875
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:25,090
perhaps get into the whole Wikipedia

876
00:33:29,700 --> 00:33:27,490
thing a lot of people feel a bit daunted

877
00:33:31,259 --> 00:33:29,710
by like myself I would feel worried

878
00:33:33,419 --> 00:33:31,269
about running fail of these rules that I

879
00:33:35,159 --> 00:33:33,429
don't know about it I mean you can be

880
00:33:36,779 --> 00:33:35,169
real mean it being a newbie there is

881
00:33:38,490 --> 00:33:36,789
that have fun things are like surfing do

882
00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:38,500
people drop in on you give you chop you

883
00:33:42,060 --> 00:33:40,510
with the fin that sort of thing chop me

884
00:33:43,350 --> 00:33:42,070
with a thin that's when you're surfing a

885
00:33:47,129 --> 00:33:43,360
wave and someone drops in on you from

886
00:33:49,500 --> 00:33:47,139
above and goes across you because you're

887
00:33:52,350 --> 00:33:49,510
a newbie to the beach mmm a grommet yeah

888
00:33:54,299 --> 00:33:52,360
ok no bull you should be able to tell by

889
00:33:57,090 --> 00:33:54,309
my statuesque intend that I am a surfer

890
00:33:59,610 --> 00:33:57,100
it's the tie I can't get my eyes off

891
00:34:03,299 --> 00:33:59,620
your tenth time Thompson Twins Thompson

892
00:34:05,549 --> 00:34:03,309
twin tie yes so yes um new people coming

893
00:34:07,529 --> 00:34:05,559
into Wikipedia are often and very

894
00:34:10,919 --> 00:34:07,539
intimidated and we find that they don't

895
00:34:13,290 --> 00:34:10,929
want to well most people are intimidated

896
00:34:16,260 --> 00:34:13,300
don't go to Wikipedia and edit I train

897
00:34:18,119 --> 00:34:16,270
people to be editors who are intimidated

898
00:34:19,980 --> 00:34:18,129
and it's a place where women are a lot

899
00:34:21,359 --> 00:34:19,990
more welcome than other places and on

900
00:34:24,809 --> 00:34:21,369
the net isn't it because they can really

901
00:34:25,770 --> 00:34:24,819
they can dish it back I wouldn't know we

902
00:34:28,169 --> 00:34:25,780
don't have anything there's never been

903
00:34:30,210 --> 00:34:28,179
issues like that there um they have done

904
00:34:32,579 --> 00:34:30,220
surveys and talking about it but we

905
00:34:34,710 --> 00:34:32,589
don't deal with it in our world at the

906
00:34:36,119 --> 00:34:34,720
DSO w project we really have nothing to

907
00:34:37,950 --> 00:34:36,129
do with the I have no idea how many

908
00:34:38,810 --> 00:34:37,960
people are women editors on my team I

909
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:38,820
have no idea

910
00:34:43,340 --> 00:34:40,770
how you would even evaluate that because

911
00:34:44,390 --> 00:34:43,350
some people are if you just counted how

912
00:34:46,630 --> 00:34:44,400
many people were women and how many

913
00:34:49,010 --> 00:34:46,640
people are men that's interesting but

914
00:34:50,390 --> 00:34:49,020
which ones are doing the most editing I

915
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:50,400
mean because it doesn't mean if there's

916
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:52,170
just some you know they're just editor

917
00:34:55,460 --> 00:34:53,850
and I think it's much we need to be much

918
00:34:58,100 --> 00:34:55,470
more diverse than just male and female

919
00:34:59,930 --> 00:34:58,110
because you know how many are moms how

920
00:35:01,370 --> 00:34:59,940
many are dads how many are military how

921
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:01,380
many our grandparents how many are

922
00:35:05,570 --> 00:35:03,450
retired this how many of that I think

923
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:05,580
we're much more diverse than just our

924
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:08,610
sexual organs and where are you taking

925
00:35:12,890 --> 00:35:09,930
the sexual organs and the rest of you

926
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:12,900
while you're here in Australia I'm going

927
00:35:16,460 --> 00:35:14,160
to be here because I shouldn't they all

928
00:35:17,870 --> 00:35:16,470
go together in the same place I'm in

929
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:17,880
here in Sydney for a little bit longer

930
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:20,970
then I'm going to go to Brisbane and

931
00:35:24,620 --> 00:35:22,290
then I'm going to be speaking to the

932
00:35:27,650 --> 00:35:24,630
Hong Kong skeptics in Hong Kong that is

933
00:35:29,180 --> 00:35:27,660
right what what a coincidence they will

934
00:35:31,190 --> 00:35:29,190
happen to be in Hong Kong at the same

935
00:35:32,780 --> 00:35:31,200
time there the Hong Kong skeptics used

936
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:32,790
to meet in Thailand but it was a hell of

937
00:35:37,850 --> 00:35:35,690
a sad day not it was a long long commute

938
00:35:40,010 --> 00:35:37,860
and then I'm going to be speaking in

939
00:35:41,390 --> 00:35:40,020
China for one day and then I'm going to

940
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:41,400
be back in San Francisco at the end of

941
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:43,770
the month Wow and you live in the Arab

942
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:44,970
San Francisco where the wrench really

943
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:47,010
expensive it is very expensive where I

944
00:35:50,150 --> 00:35:48,330
live I'm two hours south of San

945
00:35:52,700 --> 00:35:50,160
Francisco right on the water in salinas

946
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:52,710
california ok as it neared its got the

947
00:35:58,040 --> 00:35:55,170
catch fire and summer like a person

948
00:36:00,500 --> 00:35:58,050
California do it's very near that we're

949
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:00,510
in earthquake out territory we have

950
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:02,970
earthquakes we're right by the loma

951
00:36:08,780 --> 00:36:06,410
prieta quake when when the big one comes

952
00:36:11,030 --> 00:36:08,790
I'm going to be right there getting

953
00:36:13,430 --> 00:36:11,040
oceanfront property because my my home

954
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:13,440
is very near the quake zone so when it

955
00:36:18,020 --> 00:36:15,810
California falls into the ocean I'm

956
00:36:21,050 --> 00:36:18,030
irate should go way up you know I should

957
00:36:22,130 --> 00:36:21,060
be able to get some really good well you

958
00:36:23,570 --> 00:36:22,140
enjoy your trip you in Australia will

959
00:36:25,100 --> 00:36:23,580
probably talk again on Sunday when

960
00:36:26,270 --> 00:36:25,110
you're giving you your chat everybody

961
00:36:28,850 --> 00:36:26,280
and why can people find out more about

962
00:36:30,650 --> 00:36:28,860
the project and get involved well we ask

963
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:30,660
them to go to our YouTube channel and I

964
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:32,490
won't give you the URL because we want

965
00:36:38,540 --> 00:36:34,770
people who are capable of doing research

966
00:36:40,310 --> 00:36:38,550
to actually find the URLs and to go and

967
00:36:41,540 --> 00:36:40,320
we asked them to go to youtube channel

968
00:36:43,460 --> 00:36:41,550
listen to some interviews by my

969
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:43,470
different editors find out if this is

970
00:36:47,990 --> 00:36:45,210
the kind of project that they want to be

971
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:48,000
participating in because we know this

972
00:36:51,020 --> 00:36:49,770
isn't for everyone and we want to make

973
00:36:51,460 --> 00:36:51,030
sure that we attract people who are

974
00:36:52,810 --> 00:36:51,470
prepared

975
00:36:53,950 --> 00:36:52,820
to be here to know that they're going to

976
00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:53,960
be going through quite a bit of training

977
00:36:58,390 --> 00:36:55,250
and they're going to be with me for

978
00:36:59,470 --> 00:36:58,400
years mmm you enjoy your time and I

979
00:37:00,940 --> 00:36:59,480
think you'll find more than enough

980
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:00,950
people want to sign up here in Australia

981
00:37:06,070 --> 00:37:04,010
I'm counting on it if not I think you

982
00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:06,080
just promised something didn't you yeah

983
00:37:08,980 --> 00:37:07,730
I promised that there's going to be some

984
00:37:10,060 --> 00:37:08,990
there's going to be some action and all

985
00:37:13,390 --> 00:37:10,070
of its going to be based around this

986
00:37:18,730 --> 00:37:13,400
Thompson Twins tie that pokey where's

987
00:37:19,990 --> 00:37:18,740
bulky well of course Wikipedia is a

988
00:37:21,490 --> 00:37:20,000
pretty special thing we've got Susan

989
00:37:23,910 --> 00:37:21,500
Kovac here telling us how you can do

990
00:37:26,170 --> 00:37:23,920
your bit of skepticism on Wikipedia my

991
00:37:27,730 --> 00:37:26,180
opinion of Wikipedia is that it's like a

992
00:37:29,650 --> 00:37:27,740
public toilet it's only as good as the

993
00:37:31,450 --> 00:37:29,660
last person who used it but what do you

994
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:31,460
think of Wikipedia do you trust it do

995
00:37:37,150 --> 00:37:34,970
you use it I think it's a good reference

996
00:37:40,089 --> 00:37:37,160
source for information that I know

997
00:37:41,349 --> 00:37:40,099
nothing about you could ever have a go

998
00:37:42,970 --> 00:37:41,359
editing it all we think there's all

999
00:37:44,230 --> 00:37:42,980
these little editing quirks of it that

1000
00:37:47,020 --> 00:37:44,240
you need to know before you can really

1001
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:47,030
dive in there now I haven't had to go

1002
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:49,130
out an ending I did make a donation to

1003
00:37:54,310 --> 00:37:50,690
it when they prompted me to last year

1004
00:37:56,740 --> 00:37:54,320
come on yeah yeah okay look up to jail

1005
00:37:58,690 --> 00:37:56,750
buster do you regularly use Wikipedia

1006
00:38:03,339 --> 00:37:58,700
and how much do you trust it I do

1007
00:38:04,900 --> 00:38:03,349
regularly use Wikipedia I am well I'm a

1008
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:04,910
skeptic I'm a little bit skeptical I'm

1009
00:38:09,670 --> 00:38:07,490
cautious generally if i'm trying to find

1010
00:38:12,130 --> 00:38:09,680
information that i'm going to rely upon

1011
00:38:16,690 --> 00:38:12,140
rather than just something i'm curious

1012
00:38:18,940 --> 00:38:16,700
about and etc i I'll generally read the

1013
00:38:20,859 --> 00:38:18,950
citations I'll go down I'll look at the

1014
00:38:23,410 --> 00:38:20,869
sources and see where people are getting

1015
00:38:26,050 --> 00:38:23,420
their information from the editors but i

1016
00:38:29,140 --> 00:38:26,060
found Wikipedia editors to be over quite

1017
00:38:31,060 --> 00:38:29,150
high standard actually and what's the

1018
00:38:32,140 --> 00:38:31,070
strangest Wikipedia page you might have

1019
00:38:33,849 --> 00:38:32,150
come across did you've looked at a few

1020
00:38:38,740 --> 00:38:33,859
strange runs in your time we all have oh

1021
00:38:40,630 --> 00:38:38,750
I have recently there's been everything

1022
00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:40,640
to do with orgone energy which actually

1023
00:38:46,170 --> 00:38:43,250
led me to reading Hawk wins Wikipedia

1024
00:38:49,390 --> 00:38:46,180
page and that was a bit strange for me

1025
00:38:51,550 --> 00:38:49,400
here so as far as your use of Wikipedia

1026
00:38:53,349 --> 00:38:51,560
goes you have fun as a reliable source

1027
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:53,359
and it's something you go to or just

1028
00:38:57,220 --> 00:38:55,490
tends to come up first in Google oh it

1029
00:38:59,140 --> 00:38:57,230
definitely tends to come up first in

1030
00:39:02,560 --> 00:38:59,150
Google

1031
00:39:04,810 --> 00:39:02,570
as for being reliable I'll tend to use

1032
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:04,820
it for I suppose what could be known as

1033
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:07,810
popular culture okay but nothing

1034
00:39:13,630 --> 00:39:11,930
academic or semantically serious or

1035
00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:13,640
medical always two men haircut 100

1036
00:39:19,150 --> 00:39:15,250
Thompson Twins that sort of thing

1037
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:19,160
exactly exactly okay and do do check the

1038
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:20,570
citations when they're there just to

1039
00:39:23,740 --> 00:39:21,650
make sure they might be right we'd

1040
00:39:26,770 --> 00:39:23,750
rather go to a more lewnard source oh

1041
00:39:29,140 --> 00:39:26,780
well well if it's if it's as I said

1042
00:39:32,140 --> 00:39:29,150
popular culture and they make a

1043
00:39:34,150 --> 00:39:32,150
reference to something I might click

1044
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:34,160
through on a citation to get to an

1045
00:39:43,330 --> 00:39:38,330
article to get your even more dirt MA

1046
00:39:45,220 --> 00:39:43,340
and gossip and lurid stuff okay right

1047
00:39:47,650 --> 00:39:45,230
elbow thank you and look at the Thompson

1048
00:39:51,340 --> 00:39:47,660
Twins because I'm wearing their tie oh I

1049
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:51,350
have the Thompson Twins on my what do I

1050
00:39:58,420 --> 00:39:54,650
call it walkman oh not your dis comin

1051
00:39:59,770 --> 00:39:58,430
your cassette walkman you wanna go

1052
00:40:01,330 --> 00:39:59,780
orange headphones so one with your own

1053
00:40:03,100 --> 00:40:01,340
trip now actually a digital walkman

1054
00:40:05,140 --> 00:40:03,110
right they make them digital now but

1055
00:40:07,630 --> 00:40:05,150
definitely have Thompson Twins and let

1056
00:40:11,810 --> 00:40:07,640
me let me admire your tie and then flip

1057
00:40:17,430 --> 00:40:11,820
flip nope it's a future kings road 1984

1058
00:40:18,720 --> 00:40:17,440
top of the trees ranza give him a big

1059
00:40:20,340 --> 00:40:18,730
night tonight lots of people wanting to

1060
00:40:21,930 --> 00:40:20,350
know all about Wikipedia as far as

1061
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:21,940
Wikipedia goes yourself is it something

1062
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:24,130
you use and do you trust it as a source

1063
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:28,810
I use it a lot yeah I tend to trust it

1064
00:40:34,260 --> 00:40:32,290
as a source although I keep my eyes open

1065
00:40:35,850 --> 00:40:34,270
for flags because they're for red flags

1066
00:40:37,290 --> 00:40:35,860
because there are things that you could

1067
00:40:39,240 --> 00:40:37,300
sometimes find wrong but you have to

1068
00:40:40,410 --> 00:40:39,250
remember that the rules of Wikipedia are

1069
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:40,420
generally the kind of rules that

1070
00:40:44,730 --> 00:40:42,970
skeptics would impose on themselves and

1071
00:40:46,050 --> 00:40:44,740
on others in terms of how do you get

1072
00:40:47,610 --> 00:40:46,060
things right which means for example

1073
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:47,620
people are not allowed to edit their own

1074
00:40:51,180 --> 00:40:50,170
pages that's one example another thing

1075
00:40:54,150 --> 00:40:51,190
is that everything needs to be

1076
00:40:55,410 --> 00:40:54,160
referenced there is that there is some

1077
00:40:57,180 --> 00:40:55,420
power in the the fact that it's

1078
00:40:59,490 --> 00:40:57,190
crowd-sourced obviously some risks in

1079
00:41:00,780 --> 00:40:59,500
there but there's a power in that what

1080
00:41:03,510 --> 00:41:00,790
you will see for example Scientology

1081
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:03,520
okay so you know it's a well-known story

1082
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:05,770
how they every time they tried to edit

1083
00:41:10,260 --> 00:41:07,570
their own pages and try to put things in

1084
00:41:13,020 --> 00:41:10,270
there but the the masses changed keep

1085
00:41:15,210 --> 00:41:13,030
changing it back until now the people

1086
00:41:16,410 --> 00:41:15,220
who are known to be Scientology

1087
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:16,420
supporters are not actually allowed

1088
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:17,890
ready that page they're actually blocked

1089
00:41:23,220 --> 00:41:20,650
by the bi-weekly wikimedia foundation so

1090
00:41:25,290 --> 00:41:23,230
there are a lot of a lot of rules in

1091
00:41:27,210 --> 00:41:25,300
there a lot of systems in place to make

1092
00:41:30,150 --> 00:41:27,220
sure that what appears there is correct

1093
00:41:34,590 --> 00:41:30,160
and true so I think generally for major

1094
00:41:36,270 --> 00:41:34,600
pages I tend to trust it for more

1095
00:41:37,830 --> 00:41:36,280
obscure ones where you know like what

1096
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:37,840
you can look at the history page or the

1097
00:41:41,730 --> 00:41:39,610
history of the page you see that it

1098
00:41:43,110 --> 00:41:41,740
hasn't been edited a lot maybe somebody

1099
00:41:45,210 --> 00:41:43,120
put something in there and that's just

1100
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:45,220
the way it is that tends to be less

1101
00:41:51,510 --> 00:41:48,450
reliable definitely anything scientific

1102
00:41:53,670 --> 00:41:51,520
sir tends to be very good but overall

1103
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:53,680
it's a fantastic project and um it was

1104
00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:56,170
researched done a few years ago at not

1105
00:41:59,910 --> 00:41:57,370
very long I think two or three years ago

1106
00:42:02,550 --> 00:41:59,920
where they compared wikipedia articles

1107
00:42:06,450 --> 00:42:02,560
to equivalent articles I think it's the

1108
00:42:09,270 --> 00:42:07,800
I can't remember what the other one was

1109
00:42:11,310 --> 00:42:09,280
they said they compared to other sources

1110
00:42:13,349 --> 00:42:11,320
of general information where was World

1111
00:42:14,609 --> 00:42:13,359
Poker no it was something or the CIA

1112
00:42:16,290 --> 00:42:14,619
world book perhaps I don't remember

1113
00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:16,300
evildoers but we compare that one of

1114
00:42:19,020 --> 00:42:17,440
them was Britannica don't know where the

1115
00:42:20,310 --> 00:42:19,030
other one was but the thing is but that

1116
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:20,320
what they found was that the accuracy

1117
00:42:24,510 --> 00:42:22,330
level was higher on wikipedia that he

1118
00:42:25,710 --> 00:42:24,520
was with Britannica and you know

1119
00:42:27,060 --> 00:42:25,720
everybody was surprised with that I'm

1120
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:27,070
not hugely surprised because of the

1121
00:42:30,990 --> 00:42:28,810
mechanisms around how these pages are

1122
00:42:32,460 --> 00:42:31,000
created okay cool and is it kind of

1123
00:42:33,420 --> 00:42:32,470
thing you get in and do your sofa you

1124
00:42:36,450 --> 00:42:33,430
haven't got time for that sort of

1125
00:42:39,660 --> 00:42:36,460
aggravation no I have things like you

1126
00:42:41,550 --> 00:42:39,670
know work and family and and skin you

1127
00:42:44,849 --> 00:42:41,560
know the skeptics and so you're pretty

1128
00:42:46,109 --> 00:42:44,859
busy like Iran thanks thanks of course

1129
00:42:47,940 --> 00:42:46,119
if you're asking about Wikipedia go to

1130
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:47,950
ask an editor here we were ed Tim the

1131
00:42:53,490 --> 00:42:49,930
editor of the The Skeptical skeptical

1132
00:42:55,740 --> 00:42:53,500
gude the magazine Heidi yeah it's great

1133
00:42:57,329 --> 00:42:55,750
to be here now when when you are not

1134
00:42:59,670 --> 00:42:57,339
doing your editing and you're reading it

1135
00:43:01,320 --> 00:42:59,680
you could how do you find Wikipedia as

1136
00:43:04,390 --> 00:43:01,330
an editor reading it and do you think

1137
00:43:07,089 --> 00:43:04,400
it's reliable I think

1138
00:43:09,730 --> 00:43:07,099
I like the concept for astern a lot the

1139
00:43:12,700 --> 00:43:09,740
concept of an interactive in a way

1140
00:43:13,839 --> 00:43:12,710
ongoing readily updated if you had an

1141
00:43:16,420 --> 00:43:13,849
old copy of encyclopedia britannica

1142
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:16,430
would get updated every 20 years there

1143
00:43:20,589 --> 00:43:17,930
were things we weren't quite relevant as

1144
00:43:22,089 --> 00:43:20,599
to how accurate they are I think again

1145
00:43:24,339 --> 00:43:22,099
the concept is supposed to be people who

1146
00:43:25,569 --> 00:43:24,349
are constantly reviewing it and fixing

1147
00:43:28,089 --> 00:43:25,579
up errors and that sort of thing now

1148
00:43:31,089 --> 00:43:28,099
there are errors in Britannica right so

1149
00:43:34,450 --> 00:43:31,099
yeah nothing's error-free so I do use it

1150
00:43:35,799 --> 00:43:34,460
I use it as a starting point and I've

1151
00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:35,809
got a section of the magazine which is

1152
00:43:38,950 --> 00:43:37,730
all about weird associations things

1153
00:43:40,390 --> 00:43:38,960
going around in a circle won't they

1154
00:43:42,039 --> 00:43:40,400
connect to the other that's plenty from

1155
00:43:44,410 --> 00:43:42,049
Wikipedia cuz the nice about Wikipedia

1156
00:43:45,579 --> 00:43:44,420
click on all the links and you go on to

1157
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:45,589
the next thing and the next thing I

1158
00:43:48,819 --> 00:43:47,450
think someone once said to me that life

1159
00:43:50,769 --> 00:43:48,829
could end up being like Wikipedia with

1160
00:43:52,029 --> 00:43:50,779
all these links in your mind he just

1161
00:43:54,130 --> 00:43:52,039
click on each one and you move around

1162
00:43:56,079 --> 00:43:54,140
wherever you want to move I like the

1163
00:43:58,660 --> 00:43:56,089
idea I like the the accessibility of it

1164
00:44:00,819 --> 00:43:58,670
obviously I'll get a 15 year old son be

1165
00:44:02,740 --> 00:44:00,829
lost without Wikipedia to do the essays

1166
00:44:04,450 --> 00:44:02,750
and fix basically doesn't I don't know

1167
00:44:06,490 --> 00:44:04,460
how much further he goes than that so

1168
00:44:07,690 --> 00:44:06,500
yeah there's a danger that it's going to

1169
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:07,700
be inaccurate because of people who are

1170
00:44:11,289 --> 00:44:09,770
writing and not necessarily complete

1171
00:44:13,799 --> 00:44:11,299
experts in the field but if it is

1172
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:13,809
self-correcting over a period of time I

1173
00:44:16,839 --> 00:44:15,770
can't see why not quite frankly

1174
00:44:18,670 --> 00:44:16,849
something I was reading at this

1175
00:44:20,230 --> 00:44:18,680
afternoon and for some reason it's

1176
00:44:23,079 --> 00:44:20,240
really sticky in my head like I was

1177
00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:23,089
reading about UN Security Council

1178
00:44:27,099 --> 00:44:25,730
resolution 1497 in 2003 about the

1179
00:44:28,990 --> 00:44:27,109
intervention in Liberia which was a

1180
00:44:30,789 --> 00:44:29,000
chapter 7 intervention which means they

1181
00:44:33,059 --> 00:44:30,799
can execute people would see um don't do

1182
00:44:35,859 --> 00:44:33,069
very often that's stuck in my head now

1183
00:44:37,510 --> 00:44:35,869
if I'd gone to learn that there's no way

1184
00:44:40,089 --> 00:44:37,520
I don't know why that's stuck in my head

1185
00:44:41,799 --> 00:44:40,099
well why is wiki so sticky where he's to

1186
00:44:44,260 --> 00:44:41,809
keep up and that because there it's a

1187
00:44:46,150 --> 00:44:44,270
media for you I mean what you can't get

1188
00:44:48,309 --> 00:44:46,160
is the flip through the pages idea well

1189
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:48,319
though they throw up these little you

1190
00:44:51,490 --> 00:44:49,970
know thought of the day sort of thing

1191
00:44:53,470 --> 00:44:51,500
but you can't like you can with a book

1192
00:44:54,670 --> 00:44:53,480
encyclopedia printed cyclopedia you can

1193
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:54,680
flip through the pages and say oh that's

1194
00:44:57,940 --> 00:44:55,970
interesting oh that's interesting you

1195
00:44:59,829 --> 00:44:57,950
can find different things do you check

1196
00:45:01,120 --> 00:44:59,839
the citations as an editor when you're

1197
00:45:02,559 --> 00:45:01,130
looking at something under the time yes

1198
00:45:04,630 --> 00:45:02,569
yes some of the time I must admit not

1199
00:45:06,250 --> 00:45:04,640
all the time but I do if I really need

1200
00:45:08,740 --> 00:45:06,260
it and I really need to know that this

1201
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:08,750
is accurate I go back to the citation as

1202
00:45:11,230 --> 00:45:10,130
long as they're still live links and

1203
00:45:12,500 --> 00:45:11,240
that sort of thing which is always an

1204
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:12,510
issue but

1205
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:14,130
do like most about Wikipedia is the

1206
00:45:18,020 --> 00:45:16,050
links the little highlighted hot links

1207
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:18,030
so the things there then hyperlinks in

1208
00:45:21,260 --> 00:45:19,170
there which I can just move from one

1209
00:45:23,870 --> 00:45:21,270
place to another and then the men that's

1210
00:45:24,890 --> 00:45:23,880
it's ten o'clock trying to get a bit ten

1211
00:45:27,170 --> 00:45:24,900
o'clock in the morning time to get an

1212
00:45:28,430 --> 00:45:27,180
idea exactly that I'd find fun because I

1213
00:45:30,590 --> 00:45:28,440
like trying to find connections between

1214
00:45:31,820 --> 00:45:30,600
things I've skewer weed connections do

1215
00:45:34,550 --> 00:45:31,830
you think you'd ever have time to do

1216
00:45:36,140 --> 00:45:34,560
that on the online version of the

1217
00:45:37,610 --> 00:45:36,150
magazine do you reckon you'd have appt

1218
00:45:39,860 --> 00:45:37,620
time to do that just been far too

1219
00:45:41,330 --> 00:45:39,870
time-consuming it would be fun to do I

1220
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:41,340
mean I think it's probably something

1221
00:45:45,710 --> 00:45:42,810
that we need to think about quite quite

1222
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:45,720
seriously moving into the EH or the the

1223
00:45:49,700 --> 00:45:47,850
age which is way beyond print etc and

1224
00:45:52,430 --> 00:45:49,710
the you know the e-magazine sort of

1225
00:45:54,770 --> 00:45:52,440
concept where you look amazing magazines

1226
00:45:56,660 --> 00:45:54,780
they have very minimal content and

1227
00:45:59,350 --> 00:45:56,670
everything's links to videos and that

1228
00:46:01,760 --> 00:45:59,360
sort of thing youtube clips whatever I

1229
00:46:04,580 --> 00:46:01,770
can to be being an old journalist I like

1230
00:46:06,500 --> 00:46:04,590
long articles feature articles and have

1231
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:06,510
a lot of in-depth information rather

1232
00:46:12,890 --> 00:46:09,930
than snippets oh no you don't seem to be

1233
00:46:14,300 --> 00:46:12,900
recognized that I did this time wearing

1234
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:14,310
what was worn by a member of the

1235
00:46:17,690 --> 00:46:16,170
Thompson Twins in one of their clips and

1236
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:17,700
I'm just I've been sort of trying to

1237
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:19,170
point you I thought obviously you'd be a

1238
00:46:22,550 --> 00:46:21,090
man have been to that if you into wiki

1239
00:46:24,500 --> 00:46:22,560
i'm sure this taught the Thompson Twins

1240
00:46:26,450 --> 00:46:24,510
fashion wardrobe has its own entrance

1241
00:46:29,870 --> 00:46:26,460
why were there three Thompson Twins in

1242
00:46:31,010 --> 00:46:29,880
the band and one of them was black well

1243
00:46:33,650 --> 00:46:31,020
how did they get in between this very

1244
00:46:35,830 --> 00:46:33,660
diverse family very diverse like a Brady

1245
00:46:37,970 --> 00:46:35,840
Bunch type experience perhaps there was

1246
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:37,980
absolutely yes there was a tall one and

1247
00:46:42,050 --> 00:46:39,570
there was a short one in New Zealand and

1248
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:42,060
I can not that I can remember of any

1249
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:43,410
songs just the one being here was a

1250
00:47:02,860 --> 00:46:45,330
stand but it was a whole mean a hobby

1251
00:47:11,240 --> 00:47:07,760
hey Heidi oh hi Joe hi Heidi oh hi

1252
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:11,250
Maynard hi Maynard oh hi Joe nice day in

1253
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:14,490
this park yeah yes great weather oh look

1254
00:47:20,900 --> 00:47:18,330
a unicorn a unicorn there are no such

1255
00:47:24,110 --> 00:47:20,910
things as unicorns silly yes there are

1256
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:24,120
no there isn't hey ladies what are you

1257
00:47:30,050 --> 00:47:26,610
arguing about Joe thinks unicorns are

1258
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:30,060
real they saw our let's look this up in

1259
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:33,570
the skeptics dictionary the word how can

1260
00:47:38,180 --> 00:47:35,850
we do that in this park there are no

1261
00:47:40,490 --> 00:47:38,190
computers here you ladies probably don't

1262
00:47:43,550 --> 00:47:40,500
know about the skeptics dictionary app

1263
00:47:46,700 --> 00:47:43,560
available now for iPhone iPad and iPod

1264
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:46,710
touch in the App Store yeah we do we've

1265
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:48,690
been listening to the skeptic zone for

1266
00:47:55,190 --> 00:47:52,890
years you know yes ok the app lets you

1267
00:47:58,940 --> 00:47:55,200
access all the great skeptics dictionary

1268
00:48:01,760 --> 00:47:58,950
articles when you're on the go yeah let

1269
00:48:04,970 --> 00:48:01,770
me look up unicorns oh cool Heidi

1270
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:04,980
prepare to be proven wrong it says here

1271
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:07,170
the Unicorn is a creature from fables

1272
00:48:12,020 --> 00:48:10,530
aha actually I see now that someone just

1273
00:48:15,260 --> 00:48:12,030
dumped their ice cream cone on that

1274
00:48:31,100 --> 00:48:15,270
horse's head thanks detentionaire iPhone

1275
00:48:34,590 --> 00:48:33,300
thank you for listening to the skeptics

1276
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:34,600
on while we ate all the last of the

1277
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:36,130
biscuits what a great episode that thank

1278
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:37,570
you for your report on the superfood you

1279
00:48:43,830 --> 00:48:40,450
too and we will look Kyle what a

1280
00:48:45,270 --> 00:48:43,840
challenge indeed and all those people

1281
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:45,280
making noises around my house I couldn't

1282
00:48:49,020 --> 00:48:46,690
believe it I was just trying to keep him

1283
00:48:52,620 --> 00:48:49,030
quiet they wouldn't shut up they never

1284
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:52,630
do oh boy and we are everybody's get up

1285
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:54,250
for the big weekend next weekend Richard

1286
00:48:57,810 --> 00:48:56,410
aren't we we are indeed we can't wait to

1287
00:48:58,980 --> 00:48:57,820
see all the skipper's own fans at the

1288
00:49:01,340 --> 00:48:58,990
Australian skeptics National Convention

1289
00:49:04,140 --> 00:49:01,350
have we mentioned that we have a table

1290
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:04,150
we have i think i did on episode or two

1291
00:49:07,890 --> 00:49:06,250
ago yes the trillion skeptics knife

1292
00:49:10,050 --> 00:49:07,900
convention you can meet the skipper zone

1293
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:10,060
at the skeptics own table you can come

1294
00:49:15,450 --> 00:49:12,370
and have a chat be interviewed and also

1295
00:49:17,550 --> 00:49:15,460
have some merchandise we will indeed

1296
00:49:19,650 --> 00:49:17,560
some very special merchandise look I'm

1297
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:19,660
going I'm gonna try and find some old

1298
00:49:24,900 --> 00:49:23,170
Maynard books to flog yeah dad your

1299
00:49:26,190 --> 00:49:24,910
guide to dag right yeah look and if I

1300
00:49:28,020 --> 00:49:26,200
can't find that I'm just going to get an

1301
00:49:30,780 --> 00:49:28,030
old John Grisham novel and say it's mine

1302
00:49:31,980 --> 00:49:30,790
that's a good idea we're looking forward

1303
00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:31,990
to meeting you at the Australian

1304
00:49:36,210 --> 00:49:33,730
skeptics National Convention it promises

1305
00:49:37,830 --> 00:49:36,220
to be a wonderful weekend right and look

1306
00:49:39,030 --> 00:49:37,840
have a look Maynard calmed are you

1307
00:49:40,650 --> 00:49:39,040
because it's actually a few videos have

1308
00:49:43,110 --> 00:49:40,660
been Richard they're having some fun at

1309
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:43,120
main and international studios doing the

1310
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:44,890
old periscope and in fact I think we'll

1311
00:49:48,900 --> 00:49:46,330
be doing some periscoping from the

1312
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:48,910
convention as well so you can catch Joe

1313
00:49:53,100 --> 00:49:51,130
at the table and I might even say

1314
00:49:54,090 --> 00:49:53,110
something in the microphone no I was

1315
00:49:56,250 --> 00:49:54,100
actually think he was setting up a

1316
00:49:59,670 --> 00:49:56,260
microphone so i could interview you if

1317
00:50:02,520 --> 00:49:59,680
you have any questions for skeptic zone

1318
00:50:04,740 --> 00:50:02,530
reporters or producers or hosts who

1319
00:50:06,150 --> 00:50:04,750
happen to be the same person we'd

1320
00:50:08,130 --> 00:50:06,160
welcome your questions we can record

1321
00:50:10,500 --> 00:50:08,140
them we can take them home and we can

1322
00:50:11,730 --> 00:50:10,510
answer them later and for a small fee

1323
00:50:14,430 --> 00:50:11,740
you can have your photograph taken with

1324
00:50:16,050 --> 00:50:14,440
us no it's all right it's all free well

1325
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:16,060
we ought to get packing because I've got

1326
00:50:20,130 --> 00:50:18,130
lots of stupid suits to try and get into

1327
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:20,140
the suitcase to try and steal onto a

1328
00:50:23,610 --> 00:50:21,970
flight I think you should and it's about

1329
00:50:25,050 --> 00:50:23,620
time we left the Xiang keys because all

1330
00:50:26,910 --> 00:50:25,060
the biscuits are gone the coffee's gone

1331
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:26,920
and the cakes have gone it's time for us

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to go to so until next week this has

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been Richard Saunders Maynard and Joe

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00:50:43,490 --> 00:50:40,190
you've been listening to the skeptics

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own podcast visit our website at wwc

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